Member Login

Do I have to register?
Username

Password

Remember me
Forgotten your password??
No account yet? Create one
Have a profile? Activate it
Home arrow Forums arrow EggHead Forum
SPECIAL EVENTS    
*** NEW - The Texas Pete Ultimate Tailgate Contest ***
The Texas Pete Ultimate Tailgate Contest
EGGFEST CENTRAL    
*** NEW! - Sunshine State Eggfest - March 12 & 13, 2010 ***
Sunshine State Eggfest - March 12 & 13, 2010
Egghead Forum
Egghead Forum
::post new topic::

Return to index

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 11:55 By: CyberDawg Status: User  
 
Newbie Egger

Posts: 2
graphgraph
I fear that too many people are ruining the gaskets on their cookers by assuming that 500-700 degree temps are needed for a true "sear" using the T-Rex method.

Keep in mind that it is the temperature at the GRATE that determines a good sear and most of that temperature is transmitted via radiant energy and flame, NOT surrounding cooker temperature. Infra-red grills prove this point.

When eggers heat their unit up to 500+ degrees, and read temps at the dome thermometer, they are heating the ceramic up far more than is needed to sear a steak for a few minutes. They risk frying a felt gasket that was never designed for such high temperatures.

Charcoal burns at a consistent temperature and has a maximum threshold of radiant energy it can put out. Heating the surrounding ceramic isn't going to increase the radiant energy from the coals much, if at all, but it WILL lead to fried gaskets and broken fireboxes.

If you want a good sear, keep the lump level low (to protect the gasket), leave the top open for maximum oxygen, and place the steaks as close to the fire as possible. Distance from the coals matters FAR MORE than dome temperature. Then close the lid to reduce flare up and wait the requisite 2-4 minutes. This will give you maximum radiant energy while keeping the ceramic as cool as possible.

Now, pizzas are a different matter, but I would comment that cooking a pizza at 550 vs. 400 or 450 isn't worth the wear and tear on your priceless ceramic investment. And you can improve matters a bit by seasoning the felt gasket. Let it settle in at lower temps for a month or two before going for high heat oven cooking. It will char a bit and compress, making it far more resistant to heat.

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:10 By: Celtic Wolf Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 12878
graphgraph
CyberDawg,

Most of what you say I will agree on. Even add that Sear does not equate the juicier.

However, Typical wood fired pizza ovens are in excess of 500 degrees as this prevents the dough from sticking to the cooking surface.

The only wear and tear is to the worthless gasket, not to the priceless ceramic. The ceramic is designed to withstand temps well above 550-600 degrees.


Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:22 By: dhuffjr Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 3980
graphgraph
Celtic Wolf,
Right.

Gaskets are cheap and highly overated. That said I need to take my trusty old large apart and put on that new gasket I bought two years ago :>

I've got a new band set to put on so it will be apart anyway.

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:32 By: CyberDawg Status: User  
 
Newbie Egger

Posts: 2
graphgraph
Celtic Wolf,

I guess you've never had a broken firebox?

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:37 By: The Naked Whiz Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 7652
graphgraph
CyberDawg,
Broken fireboxes just aren't that big a deal. I'm still using my original broken firebox. Once they break, that's it. They typically don't keep breaking into smaller and smaller pieces. Also there have been owners here who reported broken fireboxes despite never doing any high-temperature cooking.

TNW

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:48 By: fishlessman Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 9592
graphgraph
CyberDawg,
i dont consider a cracked fire box to be broken, this is my 7 piece firebox. ive been cooking pizzas up near 750, starting to look at making dough as the store bought stuff seems inconsistant to me, one comes out great then the next day same setup it gets a burnt bottom, same dough. i like how much airier the quickly cooked pizzas come out with just a bit of crunch

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 12:50 By: CyberDawg Status: User  
 
Newbie Egger

Posts: 2
graphgraph
The Naked Whiz,

Well, all I can say is that I've cooked many a Trex and pizza following the stated guidelines, and I've never had a pizza stick to the stone, and I've never had to take a day away from cooking to replace a gasket.

After 2 years of cooking, my original equipment firebox and felt gasket are in pristine condition.

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 13:00 By: Celtic Wolf Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 12878
graphgraph
CyberDawg,

Well that like the rest of the priceless ceramic pieces is under a lifetime warranty. As TNW said once it cracks the likely hood of more cracks have decreased dramatically.

To add my voice to TNWs other remark. High Heat is not always the culprit for a cracked firebox.

Many of us have the new warranty replacement part in storage and still use the cracked Firebox or Fire ring.


Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 13:03 By: The Naked Whiz Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 7652
graphgraph
CyberDawg,
You are right that the temperature at the grate is the important temperature to consider when searing. I have measured this temperature with a roaring fire going, and while the dome temperature may have been 750 degrees, the grate temperature was over 1200 degrees.

However, it is not correct to say that charcoal burns at a consistent temperature. It burns over a wide range of temperatures as evidenced by its color, from red to orange to straw to white as you give it more oxygen allowing it to burn hotter and hotter. Getting a roaring fire going will produce a much higher temperature at the grate level.

I also don't think that heating up the ceramic is the issue here. I ran a large Egg at 400 degrees dome temperature for 2.5 hours and the temperature of the ceramic by the gasket was only 180 degrees. Heating the Egg up to 750 degrees for the 10 minutes or so that it takes to sear a steak isn't going heat the ceramic up very much at all.

I think the issue is more with the burping of the Egg. This allows hot air to rush out over the surface of the gaskets and I think does far more damage than any heat from the ceramic. And if you have any sort of flashback when you burp the egg, this will indeed damage the gaskets. The carbon monoxide flame will easily exceed 1100 degrees. Rather than just burping the cooker, I would open top and bottom vents wide open for several seconds before doing any burping to minimize the rush of hot air out of the cooker and prevent any flashback.

TNW

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 14:24 By: kent Status: Visitor  
 
The Naked Whiz,

I am the newbee on the block 4 cooks/4 days. I melted my gasket on day 2. I wanted to try a seared stake. Got the dome up to 650-675.

Being very concerned about the information TNW put up about flashback, I opened the lid 2-4 inches, then closed, did it again, then the third time the exiting heat was so hot I couldn’t continue to open the dome. At that point the gasket was fine. I opened it again to burp, two times then opened the dome all the way. At that point the gasket looked like it was melted, in actuality I don’t think it was, however the glue had released and the gasket was moved on the surface and somewhat when opening stuck to the top gasket.

The upper and lower gasket pulled apart when the dome opened. I turned the steak and closed. 1 ½ minutes I cut the dampers completely closed. When I tried to open the dome it was stuck. I finally got it opened took out the steak (which was great).

Then proceed to let the fire snuff out.

The gasket didn’t look to be burned but it appeared to have shrunk. I didn’t know enough to look more at the gasket so I can not say for sure if it did shrink, somewhat like heat shrink tubing but not that dramatic.

The heat was extreme to the feel when I tried opening the dome and that heat went over the gasket several times before I experienced the gasket problem.

I realize that I am the new kid on the block (well old fart actually) with no bge experience, just some thoughts…

After reading TNW’s comments about not having problems with the gasket after 2 years made me wonder.

1. Out here locally another new ex bge owner ruined his gasket on the first day. Has the company changed the adhesive on the gaskets as there are a lot of people having the gasket problems?!
2. Is it possible the way we are burping the bge causing the failure of the glue/gasket. In my case I am pretty confident it was a glue failure? Or my allowing too much heat for too long to escape over the rim.

I wonder if I would have burped once maybe twice then fully opened the dome if my gasket problem would not have happened.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

kent

reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 15:40 By: FR8TDOG11 Status: Visitor  
 
CyberDawg,
I've never had a problem with my fire box or gasket after 2 years of extreeeem high temp searing. Like someone posted previously the grate temp can pass the 1200 mark (better than Ruth Chris!!) The gasket is just a normal wear and tear item that will need to be replaced over time. My 2 cents....new eggs should be broken in slowly. Before burping, put your beer down and open all vents. Get that egg as frickn! hot as possible to compete with a fr8tdog steak cheers

reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 15:52 By: mad max beyond eggdome Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 9906
graphgraph
CyberDawg,
i sear at 700 degrees + all the time. .. . in 5 years, i've only melted one set of gaskets, and that was when i accidentally left the egg at 700 degrees for over 30 minutes to clean the egg. . .

trex and i have discussed this many times ... a shorter sear at 700+ (say 90 seconds per side on a 1 1/2 inch thick steak) plus a shorter dwell at 400 degrees produces a much different texture than when searing at 5 - 600 degrees with a longer dwell. .. .the meat will be done the same, but the texture can be very different (and i'm talking about NY strip steaks. .. .

i think people melt their gaskets for two main reasons. ..one, they don't have a good seal between dome and base, letting hot gasses leak through gap (think challenger disaster in 86). ..and two, they leave the egg at 700+ for way too long. . ..i get my egg cranked up to 900 degrees or so, sear the steaks for a maximum of 3 minutes, then immediately take the egg down in temps. ...works fine everytime. .. .

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 15:56 By: mad max beyond eggdome Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 9906
graphgraph
kent,
how long was your egg over 650 when you opened it the first time? .. .and did you have a good seal between dome and base? .. ..

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 17:49 By: CyberDawg Status: User  
 
Newbie Egger

Posts: 2
graphgraph
mad max beyond eggdome,

I agree with you on the duration of high temps being a major issue. However, I still want to emphasize that temps at the grill level have very little to do with the temp showing on the thermometer.

Steak closer to fire = much higher sear temp

This follows the inverse law of radiation. Move a steak half the distance from previous and you get four times the heat.

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 18:42 By: TRex Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 3375
graphgraph
mad max beyond eggdome,

I agree 100%. I do not have empirical data but I would be willing to bet that most melted gaskets result from a bad seal between the top and bottom sections. And of course, longer durations at high temps will eventually heat up the ceramic enough to potentially get it to a temperature at which the gasket glue starts to melt, but short durations - with all of that ceramic mass and that low thermal conductivity - aren't going to bother that gasket at all.

I think better advice than saying, "Make sure you cure your gasket with several low temp cooks before high temp searing" would be, "Make sure that you do not have any leaks around the entire circumference of your sealing surface before doing any high temp searing, and don't leave your Egg at high searing temps for more than 5 minutes."

For the record, I have never melted a gasket, and I did high temperature sealing from Day 1 on both my Mini and my newer Medium.

A note to CyberDawg: thanks for bringing up this issue - good discussion. Just to clarify, though - I don't use the dome temperature as the measurement of what temperature I'm searing at, I use it as an indication of heat flux due to coal radiation within the Egg. I always sear with the dome open, so I'm clearly only concerned about that coal radiation (and, of course, some good ole fashioned conduction from the cooking grid).

Cheers,

TRex

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/07/31 18:55 By: The Naked Whiz Status: User  
 

Platinum Egger

Posts: 7652
graphgraph
CyberDawg,
I don't mean to keep arguing, but the inverse square law applied to a point source. I think it's linear for a planar source. But clearly closer is hotter. Like I said earlier at 750 degree dome, I measured 1200+ degrees 3 inches from the coals.

TNW

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/08/01 00:56 By: CyberDawg Status: User  
 
Newbie Egger

Posts: 2
graphgraph
The Naked Whiz,

Actually, a planar source is just a whole bunch of point sources. They're still going to lose energy as the inverse square of distance.

Click here to see the profile of this user reply | quote

Searing temps and gaskets - urban myth?
Date: 2007/08/03 03:23 By: kent Status: Visitor  
 
mad max beyond eggdome,

I opened grate and top all the way. Temp went up from 350 to 600+ I then placed the steak on the grid and closed.

Burped 3 times then tried to open It was too hot to completly open. About 45 seconds to 1 minute later, burped again then opened lid.

I saw the bottom flet had released from the egg. I turned the steak and closed.

Closed all vents, 2 minutes later I took the steak off.

Closed lid to kill fire and fix the problem.

Thanks, Kent

reply | quote

Return to index

::post new topic::